Comments on: Pride before a maul http://www.oyvagoy.com/2009/06/08/pride-before-a-maul/ The philosemitic blog of author and journalist Chas Newkey-Burden, from the UK Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:01:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Chas Newkey-Burden http://www.oyvagoy.com/2009/06/08/pride-before-a-maul/comment-page-1/#comment-2325 Chas Newkey-Burden Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:45:40 +0000 http://www.oyvagoy.com/?p=2112#comment-2325 It's hard to disagree with you Naomi! It’s hard to disagree with you Naomi!

]]> By: naomi http://www.oyvagoy.com/2009/06/08/pride-before-a-maul/comment-page-1/#comment-2324 naomi Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:22:25 +0000 http://www.oyvagoy.com/?p=2112#comment-2324 while i applaud your efforts to approach this issue with a cool head, i fundamentally disagree with your conclusion. at heart, this is about the rights to freedom of speech and assembly that should be core values of israeli society and which, thankfully, the israeli courts have consistently defended. jerusalem does not belong to the haredim, and we mustn't surrender to the idea posited by them that it does. in the capital city, all israelis should be free to act as he or she chooses, within the law. if you are proud to be gay in tel aviv, then you should be proud to be gay in jerusalem too. haredim have a lot of chutzpah to claim that jerusalem gay pride is disrespectful to them when they themselves have no respect for gay israelis, or secular israelis in general for that matter. moreover, maybe the haredi communities should consider contributing productively to israeli society, as opposed to sponging off it like they do at present, before they start lecturing hard working, idf-serving israelis about their right to march through jerusalem. while i applaud your efforts to approach this issue with a cool head, i fundamentally disagree with your conclusion. at heart, this is about the rights to freedom of speech and assembly that should be core values of israeli society and which, thankfully, the israeli courts have consistently defended.

jerusalem does not belong to the haredim, and we mustn’t surrender to the idea posited by them that it does. in the capital city, all israelis should be free to act as he or she chooses, within the law. if you are proud to be gay in tel aviv, then you should be proud to be gay in jerusalem too.

haredim have a lot of chutzpah to claim that jerusalem gay pride is disrespectful to them when they themselves have no respect for gay israelis, or secular israelis in general for that matter.

moreover, maybe the haredi communities should consider contributing productively to israeli society, as opposed to sponging off it like they do at present, before they start lecturing hard working, idf-serving israelis about their right to march through jerusalem.

]]> By: NM http://www.oyvagoy.com/2009/06/08/pride-before-a-maul/comment-page-1/#comment-2323 NM Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:49:21 +0000 http://www.oyvagoy.com/?p=2112#comment-2323 It is indeed nuanced. If Israel were generally homophobic, or there were institutional laws against gay people, then making a point about marching through Jerusalem would be valid. But, paradoxically, it shows a great sense of *self confidence* and *pride* to be able to say "actually, we're comfortable enough that we don't feel we need to march through Jerusalem". Only a mature, well represented, rights-holding community could feel sufficiently at ease to agree to this without feeling it was "betraying" any great principle, and was just being kind. It is indeed nuanced. If Israel were generally homophobic, or there were institutional laws against gay people, then making a point about marching through Jerusalem would be valid. But, paradoxically, it shows a great sense of *self confidence* and *pride* to be able to say “actually, we’re comfortable enough that we don’t feel we need to march through Jerusalem”. Only a mature, well represented, rights-holding community could feel sufficiently at ease to agree to this without feeling it was “betraying” any great principle, and was just being kind.

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