It’s been a good week for Nick Clegg after he scored well in the first televised leadership debate. Personally I think he’s an intellectually weak man whose spin is all too transparent. His ‘plague on both your houses’ tactic might be superficially seductive, but it only works for him because the Liberal Democrats have never had to deal with problems in office.
But that’s just my opinion. What is beyond doubt is that he has a shameful record when it comes to Israel and dealing with antisemitism:
* He has called for Israel to stop being armed.
* He has also called for an immediate end to what he calls the “blockade” of Gaza, but offers no suggestion as to how to ensure Israel’s security under such a scenario.
* He has claimed most of those killed in Operation Cast Lead were civilians, when even Hamas admits this is not the case.
* He has claimed that “all sides of the conflict” – including Hamas – want a peaceful two-state solution, ignoring that Hamas openly do not want that.
* He repeatedly failed to keep his promise to deal with Jenny Tonge’s antisemitism and only after repeat offences and much pressure did he deal with her in the most minimal way he could get away with.
* Last year he asked: “Is the idea of Israel as a Jewish state something new?”
* He is obsessed with claiming that the fact he is “married to a Spaniard” makes his party’s terrible track record on Israel and antisemitism all right.
When you enter the polling booth next month ask yourself if you want a man with that sort of record to end up with any influence on the Foreign Office of a coalition government…
I would also draw to your attention/remind you of the Liberal Democrats cynical, divisive tactics in north London recently: http://www.oyvagoy.com/2010/03/02/lib-dems-vilify-israel-to-win-muslim-votes-except-in-hampstead/
Thank your for this Chas. I don’t think many people realise just how damaging the LibDems could be given any type of power.
The Spanish excuse is clearly ridiculous and shows a lack of understanding of racism and anti semitism.
While I am here, I’ll just take another opportunity to ask anyone who would like to do so to sign this petition which will be sent to Nick Clegg on election day. We really could do with more signatures! Thank you.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nosupportforantisemitism/
53 LibDem MPs signed EDM 502, opposing any change to the loophole in Universal Jurisdiction, which allows an invividual to obtain an arrest warrant.
There are only 63 LibDem MPs in total!
http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=40074
If the LibDems are in the Cabinet then in all probability no Israeli (other than Ministers) will feel able to come to the UK.
It’s as simple as that.
Ed Davey MP called on the British Government to act on the Goldstone Report (which wrongly accused Israel of committing war crimes during Operation Cast Lead).
Liberal Democrat MEP Chris Davis accused a Jewish constituent of “wallowing in her own filth”.
http://cifwatch.com/2010/01/07/dear-nicholas/#more-4453
Look at the company Clegg keeps. Nicholas Blincoe, a former ISM activist, is also a former adviser to Clegg.
i wrote this also:
http://richardmillett.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/dont-vote-liberal-democrat-if-you-value-israel/
Totally agree Chas – Nick Clegg as FM is a terrifying prospect.
:p I’m certainly not voting LibDem after that!!! Thanks Chas:o)
The ME question is only one of many in the world. So your singular focus would seem to disqualify you from making a reliable or balanced judgement.
While I would not underestimate the potential capacity for the ME situation to escalate I am also wholly unconvinced it is productive to be as uncritical as you seem to wish.
Your ignorance about the LibDems is frankly shocking and I think your fearmongering is playing to your worst prejudices and leading you to construct bad opinions.
I’m happy to entertain you in some discussion should you so wish.
Cleggmania will not last. It’s a passing fad. The Liberal Democrats attract as MPs and candidates the failed and the hopeless. To the rank-and-file they attract dreamers who cannot see that most of the LibDem manifesto is unworkable in the real world – that place the LibDems never have to exist in.
Well said. LibDems seem to have more anti-semites than Tories and Labour and if Clegg is too cowardly to deal with that properly then how could he cope with the challenges of power?
Hi Oranjepan, nice to see another Berkshire blogger here. I’m not sure what to make of your comment though.
The ME question is only one of many in the world. So your singular focus would seem to disqualify you from making a reliable or balanced judgement.
Thanks, I’m aware it’s only one of many in the world. It is the issue that my blog is based on – hence my focus on it in this post.
While I would not underestimate the potential capacity for the ME situation to escalate I am also wholly unconvinced it is productive to be as uncritical as you seem to wish.
That is not the most clearly constructed sentence so I’m not clear what you are trying to say. But far from being uncritical I would have thought my post was highly critical, just maybe not in the way you would like it to be.
Your ignorance about the LibDems is frankly shocking and I think your fearmongering is playing to your worst prejudices and leading you to construct bad opinions.
Ignorance? Prejudices? Opinions? Apart from sentences two and three everything else in my post is a solid undeniable fact. Even my assessment of his intellect is based on first-hand experience of him at a Jewish News event last year where he made a total fool of himself.
Thanks for this – really useful stuff
I agree – the ME isn’t the only concern in the coming election, but, in my view, it is a hugely important global concern that has the potential to affect us all, so I will certainly be monitoring the parties for their understanding of the issues.
I am not completely unaware of LibDem policies and have colleagues who are activists. I can honestly say that not a one of them has any real idea about the ME that I would define as ‘informed’. I tend to think that they take the very silly view that if Israel was to fade away, the whole world would, metaphorically speaking, hold hands around a campfire and sing happy, peaceful songs.
To a man they appear not to understand that you simply cannot take Western logic, values and mindsets and apply them to all situations across the globe. Now, I’m not saying that they are alone in this, many who dwell in the realms of the intelligentsia do the same thing, but it’s deeply worrying because – putting Israel out of the picture – it tends to indicate that they could make some very flawed foreign policy decisions. I agree with Cameron – one of the major responsibilities of a government is to protect its people so foreign policy is important.
Shortly before Nick Clegg won the leadership contest, I, like Chas, heard him speak. Afterwards, even some previously supportive LibDem activists agreed that he needed a few more years on the back benches – he just came over as immature and ideological. Neither Israel nor the ME were mentioned so my assessments were made on the local and national issues discussed. And ‘performance’. I’m sorry but he does ‘perform’ and it was one of the reasons I didn’t take to him.
I watched him in the recent election debate but, again, I wasn’t impressed. On a couple of issues he spoke of LibDem policies which had worked ‘in other areas’, which is all well and good, except that you cannot take something that works in, say, Sweden, and believe it will definitely work in the UK. The flawed thinking regarding alcoholic consumption and 24hr drinking in the UK was, I believe, extrapolated from observing French culture. I’ve worked on projects relating to ‘challenging’ kids which work well in some areas but fail in others. It just isn’t as easy as Nick seems to think.
On a final note I would add that in a previous election QT affair, Blair was booed whilst Kennedy was cheered – but despite this encouraging support from the public, it didn’t translate into a vote for the LibDems.
Thanks Chas. You and everyone above (well almost) have said it all. So perhaps it is time for a reprise of Duvidl’s song from on previous thread, about Ed Fordham, the Lib Dem candidate for Hampstead and Kilburn:
The Fordham Song
(to the tune of the “Mr. Ed” US 60s TV series theme song,”I am Mr. Ed.”)
A horse is a horse of course, of course.
A Lib-Dem will talk to a horse, of course.
A Poison Tongue or a Clegg’s so coarse,
As is infamous Mr. Ed.
Chorus: Lib-Dems yakkety-yak a streak
And waste your time of day.
But Poison Tongue will always screech,
Despite having nothing to say.
Any Lib-Dem is a horse of course,
Tongue-lashing you till its voice is hoarse.
Clegg’s on an anti-Israel course,
And so is Mr. Ed.
Chorus
They claim they’re not anti-semitic, of course,
Lest electors call in the police force
And stick up Clegg’s tuches a bunch of gorse,
Or make his arse grass instead.
DS Al Coda
Sarah Teather (LibDem MP for Hornsey and Wood Green) has called for an EU Trade Embargo with Israel
Paul Rowen (LibDem MP for Rochdale) has said that the IDF is guilty of massacres
Lord Wallace spoke to the Board of Deputies of British Jews yesterday (plenary). He is Deputy Leader of the LibDems in the Lords and a spokesman on Foreign Affairs. He tried to defend Tonge; he accused Israel of ‘collective punishment’; he said that all criticism of Israel is called ‘antisemitic’; he attacked the Editor of the JC for “trapping” Tonge and said he was “no friend” of the LDs.
Four Deputies walked out.
I’m happy to entertain you in some discussion should you so wish.
Lol – a patronising & deluded LibDem, who’d have thought it?!
I am so pleased to hear that the Lib Dem at the BOD meeting did such a bad job only weeks before the election. What an idiot. Imagine turning up in front of a Jewish crowd to tell them how dreadful they are.
I still cannot quite believe the Lib Dems’ hypocrisy in circulation this leaflet http://twitpic.com/1goi2q and this one http://twitpic.com/1goi2e at the same time as leaflets from Ed Fordham (only to Jewish homes, identified by mezuzot) implying support and balanced interest in Israel.
In his latest offering, Fordham even intentionally captions a photo of MK Isaac Herzog as ‘Minister for the Diaspora’ when he has not occupied that role for some time. Fordham knows that, of course, as he got it right on his blog back in January when they met. But by including the photo and suggesting that the man is in charge of diaspora affairs, he hopes to woo diaspora Jews here in Hampstead and Kilburn, by implying Herzog’s endorsement of his campaign (which I sincerely doubt).
Alan P – Thank you for the link to Israelinurse’s article on Nicholas Brincoe. I can only echo her comment:
“and now I think I understand where Nick Clegg gets some of his ideas about Israel from”
My jaw is well and truly at floor level.
I genuinely hope that any LibDem activist or voter who drops by your blog Chas will consider reading this article, too. It may go some way to assisting them in understanding how the issues in the ME are being misrepresented by so many people. Including those who have, or have had, the leader’s ear.
I’m extremely concerned that the Lib Dems could have more than a sniff of power.
I don’t trust them one little bit. You only have to look at some of the parties actions to feel a bit queasy. Their attitudes to the middle east are naive and misguided in the extremel. Cleggs failure to properly admonish Jenny Tonge speaks volumes about how the Lib Dems would behave in office.
A wounded Brown propped up by the Lib Dems would be a disaster. You’d not only get a failed PM who has failed then nation but a powerful Lib Dem clique waving the white flag in the face of Islamist terror.
A new story of Liberal Democrat bigotry http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/30643/lib-dem-lords-deputy-leader-causes-board-walk-out
So I guess I will not be voting in this election then! Thanks for that!
The thing is, this is what your blog is about, so of course you would be highlighting these types of examples. What about the other parties? Are they not just as bad? I know your local Tory MP is great! Are all Lib Dems the same?
I am not commenting to wind you up, I am not some patronising or deluded Lib Dem coming on here to attack you. I thought I was voting Lib Dem, but what you and others have linked to is serious and worrying.
Hi. Good question. I think the current Labour administration – post Blair – is not that good on Israel. The tories are the best of the three on Israel in my opinion. The Lib Dems are comfortably the worst.
And then there’s Lord Dykes …
http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/parting-shots
Hi Chas,
criticism goes both ways, but I’ve yet to read any criticism of Israel coming from you, so I conclude you present a blatantly one-sided and therefore unbalanced perspective.
That’s your perspective and it’s fair enough as far as it goes, but it is also then fair enough for outsiders like myself to come here and challenge you on it to see how it stacks up.
I agree that not everyone is equally supportive of Israeli national policy and I argue this is a good thing (as well as inevitable), but similarly to categorise anyone who offers any criticism as anti-semitic (as is the implication of the BoD reference) is missing the point by a wide margin. The four deputies who walked out were representing their own views, not those of the whole meeting (and I daresay that there were only four indicates their political position was massively in the minority).
Put simply the only trustworthy friend is a candid friend; he or she who tells you what you want to hear is an acolyte. They do so because they have a vested interest in the outcome.
The ME problems are not caused by religion or race, but by politics: military solutions lead to military responses. So anyone who argues racial or religious incompatibility is implicity exposing their interest in supporting the military over the people.
Equally, the opposition to the LibDem candidate among the commenters here is based on political opposition, not on full consideration of the policy implications.
I’m also dubious as to the weight of emphasis you can fairly place on your personal impression of a man at a single public event a year ago. Is your first impression final? Has he not grown since? So I question your ability to judge intellect and I ask whether there is not far more to leadership than this alone anyway.
On a side point I’d also point out that Nick Clegg is unlikely to enter the foreign office after this election, unless you are predicting a coalition government, which Clegg seems to have already ruled out.
But let me put my cards on the table. In the ME situation guilt must be shared out where it belongs. Both Israelis and Arabs ARE guilty of crimes. This needs to be far more widely acknowledged – on both sides – before forgiveness can be given and trust can grow that peace will succeed: those who reject righteous judgement are not helping the situation and are actually creating a block on peace.
Secondly the militarisation of the disputed territories is an unacceptable state of affairs and the security wall is a scar on the face of humanity.
The issue of settlements is a direct provocation, as is the effective control of historic sites and the use of mob violence (including katyushas coming out of Gaza).
I’m not pro- or anti- either the Israeli or the Palestinian cause, but I’m not without strong opinions on the subject, so in one way at least I do sympathise with the LibDems, that a third voice aids debate of the issues.
Making decisions based on fears and worries is simply an unreliable methodology. Contingencies are secondary to the overriding certainty that things cannot continue as they are and we must choose between the differing visions of the future politics offers.
The policies of each party will have consequences for the volatile ME situation, so I think it is only fair to try to bring some balance into the discussion and get you to consider exactly which consequences you prefer to face.
@Shmuel
call me patronising and deluded if you wish, but I’m not a LibDem. I’m independent and I think a balanced debate is more productive than a one-sided polemic.
@Trundlemeister
Clegg was also criticised for overreacting to Jenny Tonge’s comments, so I’m not convinced your opinion that he didn’t react strongly enough is fair.
@Penny
discerning voting trends is much more difficult than that because it involves multiple factors. Most commentators suggest the Iraq issue did win more support for the LibDems under Kennedy, but it is arguable the consequences of his problems with alcohol lost nearly as many.
Shmuel was spot on about patronising. Oranjepan, you are just absurd.
First you patronisingly attempted to criticise the original post but as Chas replied – the post was based on facts. So you then just tossed around some hopelessly inane cliches about the Middle East in the hope they made you sound wise. They didn’t.
You also say Chas shouldn’t base his judgement on Nick Clegg having seen him at one public event, yet you yourself make a number of ludicrously patronising assumptions about Chas even though you have never – I assume – even met him? You also make laughable assumptions about the motivations of ‘the commenters here’. You even make a sweeping assumption about the Board of Deputies. Are you a member of the Board, or do you just assume the things that fit your agenda?
Your response to Trundlemaster was probably the silliest: if someone somewhere said Clegg overreacted then that means he can’t have underreacted. You seem to be the same about the Middle East: on the one hand this, on the other hand that. It’s not balance, its inanity.
“The ME problems are not caused by religion or race, but by politics: military solutions lead to military responses. So anyone who argues racial or religious incompatibility is implicity exposing their interest in supporting the military over the people”
I’m not 100% sure what you mean by this so feel free to tell me if, by my reply it seems I’ve missed your point.
Why do you think the ME situation is not a religious or racial one but only political/military?
I’m not sure if you are aware of the fact that almost a million Jews were expelled from the ME post-1950′s (my husband’s family being amongst them)? They were expelled because they were Jewish – i.e. for religious reasons.
Have you heard of Hassan al-Banna/Haj Amin al-Husseini/Sayeed Qutb/The Muslim Brotherhood? Have you read Hamas’ charter?
Here’s a few tiny excerpts from that charter:
“The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinct Palestinian Movement which owes its loyalty to Allah, derives from Islam its way of life and strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine”
“In the absence of Islam, conflict arises, oppression reigns, corruption is rampant and struggles and wars prevail”
“the Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).”
The most notable thing about these excerpts is that they are religious in nature. ‘Google’ this charter for yourself. Also, on YouTube do a search for Hamas MP Yunis al-Astal who states that after the Zionists have been conquered the jihad will turn towards Rome, Europe and the Americas.
Let’s take the most recent and pressing concern, Iran, of which Hamas and Hizb’allah both are proxies. Are you aware of the fact that Ahmadinejad is a ‘Twelver’, a member of a sect considered so dangerous by the Ayatollah Khomeini that he wanted them run out of town? The ‘Twelver’s’ believe that in order to bring back the 12th Imam – the Mahdi – and create heaven on earth, you first need to create global chaos. Ahamdinejad believes himself to have a part to play in bringing the Mahdi back – and this is the man who seeks to go nuclear and to whom Obama has extended conciliatory gestures only to be snubbed time and time again. That said, it now looks as if the Pentagon are getting nervous about Obama’s method since it is not getting a result and leaving them without a strategy.
Islam has been a conquering force over time, but since 17th century has gone into decline. There are some, now, in the ME who believe that the time has come to apply a correction; for Islam to rise again and the Caliphate to be restored. This aim is, therefore, religious in nature.
There is much, much more I could add but this is a blog, not a history lesson. Hopefully, I’ve provided a flavour of the matter and, in doing so, perhaps illustrated why I believe Nick Clegg’s comment about disarming Israel is so out of touch. What does he think will happen to the population of Israel – 20% of which is Arab – if it is disarmed? He is living on another planet if he thinks this will not lead to carnage in the region. Nick may be exercising his Western values here, but the ‘other side’ first have to share them.
Nick also showed his lack of insight into the ME when, during the Gazan war he was asked for a comment and said that it had to stop because it would only produce more suicide bombers. That has to be the most superficial, completely lacking in understanding comment I’ve ever heard from a political leader.
Thanks Penny.
Oranjepan thanks for being “happy to entertain you in some discussion should you so wish” and for your increasingly peculiar comments but please don’t waste your time commenting here any longer. If you want to go away thinking we couldn’t handle how insightful and balanced you are then please do so.
One for the hall of fame, maybe?
Another reason not to vote Lib Dem – the faith school policy http://bit.ly/c6xgB6 and a good piece about Clegg’s singular focus on Israel here. More Clegg hypocrisy here. These Clegg connections (scroll down) are no surprise.
From your linked article Chas:-
“The Lib Dems had criticised the Iraq War and Israel’s actions in Gaza because it was right to do so, he added, not because it was popular. ‘We will not stand aside when unimaginable human suffering is taking place”
How strange, then, that Mr Clegg is standing aside from the real and unimaginable suffering in the Congo and Sudan where its scale dwarfs any other. The brutality dealt out to protestors in Iran seems to have escaped Nick’s notice, too.
Oh, and the abusive, dangerous, education programs rolling out in Gaza, brainwashing children into hatred and paranoia. If that isn’t criticised and terminated, it will take a darned sight more than a signature on a peace deal to end the conflict.
It is right for a political leader to draw attention to human suffering, but it is cynical and opportunistic only to do so when such suffering is that which you suspect to be uppermost in some of your electorate’s mind. Far from his statement that he was not levying criticism because it was “popular” to do so – that is precisely what he is doing.
Dam F asks
“Are all Lib Dems the same?”
Careful of thinking this way. While there are undoubtedly antisemites and Israel haters in the other two major parties neither of their leaderships are that bad. In the case of the Lib Dems there is a very clear anti Israel bias at the very top and in this I think they are unique among the big three parties. It is absolutely clear – if you want a UK government that deals decently and fairly with Israel the last party to vote for is the LibDems.