As the ship named after Rachel Corrie arrives in Ashdod port, you might like to read about some other Rachels who died in the Middle East but about whom no plays are written, nor ships named. Read about ‘The Forgotten Rachels’ here.
Also, Charles Krauthammer has written a superb article in The Washington Post in which he reminds us that: “In World War II, with full international legality, the United States blockaded Germany and Japan. And during the October 1962 missile crisis, we blockaded (“quarantined”) Cuba. Arms-bearing Russian ships headed to Cuba turned back because the Soviets knew that the U.S. Navy would either board them or sink them. Yet Israel is accused of international criminality for doing precisely what John Kennedy did: imposing a naval blockade to prevent a hostile state from acquiring lethal weaponry.”
He shows how every method of defence Israel uses is delegitimized and concludes: “The world is tired of these troublesome Jews, 6 million – that number again – hard by the Mediterranean, refusing every invitation to national suicide.”
You can read it all here.
Finally, looking at my traffic stats I seem to have picked up a lot of new readers this week. Welcome to you all. If you’re wondering why I blog about Israel you can find out here.
“In World War II, with full international legality, the United States blockaded Germany and Japan.”
Are you saying the situation in Gaza is a war? In which case the Palestinians have a right then to arms themselves and engage militarily. Talking about rockets fired from Gaza into Israel should then be seen as an action of conflict. If not, then this analogy is irrelevant.
“And during the October 1962 missile crisis, we blockaded (“quarantined”) Cuba. Arms-bearing Russian ships headed to Cuba turned back ”
Are you implying that the ships were carrying arms? How come no weapons more sophisticated than knives and table legs have been found on the boat? Where are the weapons? This is serious: you are alleging that the aid convoy was a gun running exercise, but you have no evidence whatsoever for this. This analogy does not hold either.
You are alleging that the aid convoy was a gun running exercise
Not I am not, nor is the article I am quoting from.
And even trying to hypothetically spin suicide bombings and rockets fired at nursery schools as ‘engaging militarily’ is ludicrous and actually quite sick.
Israel has the right to peace and security. Hamas has no right to engage in terrorism. However you try and twist and spin from the comfort of your home those are basic realities.
“You are alleging that the aid convoy was a gun running exercise”
“Not I am not, nor is the article I am quoting from.”
The article gives as a justification for the blockade the fact that the Russian ships were carrying arms. Using this example implies that the use of a blockade to stop gun-running is acceptable. Or does the author mean to say, “it is acceptable to blockade a country for any reason you can think of”.
“And even trying to hypothetically spin suicide bombings and rockets fired at nursery schools as ‘engaging militarily’ is ludicrous and actually quite sick.”
How? Their destructive capabilities are nothing compared to jet fighters and tanks. Both of these were used in the assault on Gaza. As a result, many civilians died. In fact, more civilians dies in that assault than have been killed by rockets fired from Gaza and suicide bombings in the past 5 years. surely that is sick? Or does it not count?
“Israel has the right to peace and security. Hamas has no right to engage in terrorism”
This is what I’m talking about. The Palestinians have just as much right to live in peace and security. Yet they are the ones dying in much greater numbers. But when they fight back, this is called terrorism. If Israel is allowed to use force why are the Palestinians not? Would you be happier if they raised a standing army to engage the IDF? Would this make their fightback more legitimate in your eyes?
“What an idiot the first commenter is. Rockets deliberately launched at civilians will never be an acceptable act of warfare for any civilised people.”
I agree with this – it never should be acceptable. But if you believe this, then you agree that civilians shouldn’t be targeted in warfare. And if so, you should condemn the assault on Gaza because hundreds of civilians were killed then. (But you won’t). Why does killing civilians with smart bombs make it right?
“The Mews, what a silly argument. Following your logic, we should have helped arm Germany and Japan because if it’s a war, well, they’re entitled to weapons.”
No, this is a silly argument. I’m not saying we should have armed Germany, and I can’t understand how anyone thinking about this could come to such an infantile conclusion. I’m not saying Israel should arm the Palestinians. Where do you get this idea from?
“So any critics of Israel are seen to be Jew haters or anti-semitic. This generalisation is not helpful to discussion, and is in fact fairly hostile.”
“As demonstrated numerous times this is a red herring. But if it makes you happy to play it then I’m happy you’re happy.”
OK, except that comment number 3 says, “Some people will try to twist anything round to help them hate Israel and / or Jews”. Then louisb says, “Or has the definition of war changed because one side is Jewish and the other is not?”
Also, a query – is calling someone an ‘idiot’ an insult to you? Is this sort of abuse condoned on this blog?
I think you need to take a deep breath and read Charles Krauthammer’s article again. You seem to keep misunderstanding his argument.
I’m afraid life is too short for me to engage with your peculiar line of reasoning but others might care to.
Putting aside our differences I can say that I hope nobody makes any further personal attacks on you and will deal with them if they do.
What an idiot the first commenter is. Rockets deliberately launched at civilians will never be an acceptable act of warfare for any civilised people.
Some people will try to twist anything round to help them hate Israel and / or Jews. It makes me feel very sorry for them that their nasty minds work like that.
And by the way, sights for guns and cartridges, neither of which fit IDF weapons, were found on board, indicating that most likely actual fire arms were thrown overboard by the boat’s passengers. This shows a premeditated desire to engage in violence.
The naval blockade exists to prevent weapon smuggling. That’s why no ships are allowed to pass. It’s not a theoretical risk. It’s a concrete one: arms have been seized from ships smuggling them in in the past. Aid, instead, is permitted to pass over the land crossing. As it was this time. Hamas, however, turned the trucks away when they reached the crossing this week.
How nice for ‘The_Mews’ to be have the freedom to come out with smartarse remarks like this. Israel has to deal with the real world and real threats.
Thanks Chas & Jonathan. Just keep chipping away. If only one person swaps truth for their blind faith in the MSM, then it will be worth while. A light in a dark place is always a good thing.
The Mews, what a silly argument. Following your logic, we should have helped arm Germany and Japan because if it’s a war, well, they’re entitled to weapons. How unfair that Germany’s airforce had ceased to exist in the last few months – we should have given them some of ours.
The Mews, ships carrying weapons HAVE been sent to Gaza – from Iran. These held, amongst other weapons, Grad missiles. It is not therefore unreasonable that Israel inspect what is going in to Gaza.
“…table legs…,” says the voice of The_Mews, who clearly cannot spot from the photographs that they were pick-axe handles without the heads. They are all oval in section with a top just large enough to wedge into the eye of the pick-axe head. The heads were clearly not included, so they were, unsurprisingly, not needed as tools on the Marmara.
The handles are the time-honoured weapon of gangsters who cannot afford baseball bats, and are seen on the videos being used to beat Israelis unconscious.
“He shows how every method of defence Israel uses is delegitimized…”
That hits the nail right on the head. Israel’s critics are aiming to bring about a situation where Israel will not be allowed to defend itself at all -all the better to get it off the map for good.
The Krauthammer article is great.
And while waiting for Jonathan’s spot on The Big Qestion to come on TV (all those breaks in transmission! What can be going on?!)I’ve found a great new regular blogger. What took me so long to find her, one of the people in the wonderful “We Con the World” video):
ISRAEL’S DAUNTING TASK – http://carolineglick.com/
Many of the people commenting here truly believe Israels critics wish to see Israel removed from the map. So any critics of Israel are seen to be Jew haters or anti-semitic. This generalisation is not helpful to discussion, and is in fact fairly hostile.
I am an English christian, but I do not go to a church. I do not wish to see Israel ‘removed from the map’.
In England I think Muslims and Jews are attacked by the press and by pressure groups in equal measures. For a long time I saw Muslims being attacked by the media and government actions (burkha bans, minaret bans, the formation of the EDL), I really believed Muslims would some day be ejected from Europe in a similar way to the Jews of WWII. It seemed as though it was open season on Muslims, or Islamists (as the media liked to call them). During the UK elections the more extreme parties focused on Islamification of Europe being a key issue.
The attacks on Israel (Jews) by the press are much much more subtle. I am not sure if this is because Muslims are more hated than Jews, or whether the media fears being called ant-semitic.
All in all I see a lot of hate coming from both sides, Jews hating on Muslims, Muslims hating on Jews, and Goyim hating on Muslims and Jews.
I really fear for the safety of ALL common people living in the middle east. I don’t think Europe really cares who get wiped off the map.
We need to find some common ground for ALL cultures of common folk in the middle east, and fast.
So any critics of Israel are seen to be Jew haters or anti-semitic. This generalisation is not helpful to discussion, and is in fact fairly hostile.
As demonstrated numerous times this is a red herring. But if it makes you happy to play it then I’m happy you’re happy.
I am not playing any herrings, red or otherwise. I was really replying to the comment made by Jenny. None of what I say (or read) on this blog makes me happy. In fact quite the opposite, I am terribly concerned about the whole situation the world is finding itself in, where we are forced to ‘pick a side’, any criticism of any side makes you ‘on the other side’..it is sickening.
Jenny says..’Israel’s critics are aiming to bring about a situation where Israel will not be allowed to defend itself at all -all the better to get it off the map for good.’. This says to me that Jenny believes ‘Israel critics’ ultimately wish to remove the state of Israel.
So is it me or Jenny who is using red herrings?
“Are you saying the situation in Gaza is a war? In which case the Palestinians have a right then to arms themselves and engage militarily. Talking about rockets fired from Gaza into Israel should then be seen as an action of conflict. If not, then this analogy is irrelevant”
Actually, yes, you are right. It is a war. The independent state of Palestine as governed by the democratically elected leadership of Hamas has unilaterally declared war on Israel; declaring its intention to destroy Israel and all Jews. So, in fact Israel is completely justified in defending itself even actively pursuing an aggressive campaign to destroy its enemy. Just because Hamas and Hizbollah picked a fight with a better organised, better armed and more sophisticated foe doesn’t require Israel to pull its punches. Or has the definition of war changed because one side is Jewish and the other is not?
LouisB
http://www.aqsa.org.uk/HOME/tabid/36/ctl/Details/mid/427/ItemID/3095/language/en-US/Default.aspx
See this link : Michael Mansfield has spoken and wants the British navy to protect European citizens from the dastardly Israelis : not in my name!
Is there no end to this hypocrisy and to the double standards which are applied to Israel’s existential struggle?
http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/65245/sec_id/65245
A couple of links to like-minded sites :for those who may not know.
I have been to Sderot numerous times in the past few years and have seen the terror that the Kassam’s bring to innocent, peace-loving Israeli’s!!
Hamas is a death cult, as is Islam in general, but these are extremist Jihadist terrorists!
In a wedding in Gaza just last year, the reception had music playing!! Hamas came in droves and machine-gunned over 30 people just celebrating a wedding!!
This is the TRUTH of HAMAS!!
Israeli’s only want to live in Peace, but My Bible tells me that there will be NO Peace until the Prince of Peace returns, and that day is coming very soon!!
I live half my life in Israel. I know not one Israeli that wants war, nor violence, they just want to live in “Quiet!!”
G-d Bless Israel Forever!!
Chas, I just saw this comprehensive post on Atlas Shrugs (run by USA heroine Pamelas Geller):
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/06/obama-tied-to-jihad-warship-flotilla.html
First paragraph:
“Let’s assess this latest bombshell consistent with Obama’s lifelong anti-semitism. The White House is linked to the jihad convoy (flotilla) latest act of war by jihadists and their leftist tools. Obama’s great pals and sponsors, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn — vile anti-semites and domestic terrorists — are behind the flotilla, as is Ground Zero mega mosque Imam Faisal, and seditionist (codepink) Jodie Evans. All are O-pals and part of the funding and operation of the genocidal “Free Gaza.”
These are Obama’s friends, all visitors to the White House according to the visitors logs. The enemies of America, enemies of Israel, are all active supporters and abettors of the jihadist movement. This is the White House. ”
Read the rest at the link…
Congratulations on the new readers Chas.
Well, having looked at the artcle in NewEnglishReview to which Wendy provided the link (many thanks) I have to say: “Europe, we have a problem.”
Somewhere on YouTube is a video of a vicious anti-Israel demo the other day by French Muslims in Paris. It degenerated into violence.
A day or two ago, while googling, I found, for the first time, a reference to a young French disc jockey, Sebastien somebody, whose throat was cut by an Algerian immigrant. Sebastien’s sole “crime” was being a Jew. Oh yes, his eyes were gouged out, and his attacker ran away exulting that he had taken a Jewish life.
We rarely hear about such incidents on the BBC. Imagine if the roles were reversed.
I have just read that Hamas is not going to allow the aid from thee ships into Gaza until all of the people on these boats are “released”.
I wonder what Israel’s dertractor’s and Hamas’s useful idiots make of that? Either the aid is urgent or it isn’t. If it is let it in – if it isn’t why the need for the boats?
http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/iran_e065.htm
read this link : the Iranian media.
And here is a short ‘thank you’ from the front line :
Thank you for writing to the MFA.
We appreciate the time and effort you have taken to provide us with your feedback.
Your words of support are a special source of encouragement at this difficult time.
Thank you very much for working with us on this matter.
Information and Internet Department
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Jerusalem
So much for the bloodthirsty Zionists………
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/27909
And here is evidence that our worst fears may be about to materialise.