Have you seen The Iron Lady? Chris and I saw it in Oxford yesterday and were both mesmerised.
Meryl Streep plays a blinder as Margaret Thatcher, the story moves smoothly from era to era and the emotional conclusion had me blubbing into my Peanut M&Ms.
I’d love to hear your thoughts if you’ve seen it, and indeed your opinions on Lady Thatcher in general. I know she’s both loved and hated and it’s as intriguing when people admire everything she did as when people hold her in universal contempt. Can it ever be that simple?
(You might also like to read this post from three years ago, in which I discussed her mostly-positive relationship with Israel and the Jewish people in general.)
It is a wonderful film about an amazing woman. Meryl Streep’s performance is breathtaking.
Some of the film is not factually accurate and some important parts of her life are omitted but it’s not a biography – it’s a film. Anyone under 45 needs to read her biography as well as that of others to get an accurate picture of the Thatcher Years.
Thanks, Hoff.
I think discussions about shawarmas or burgers seem to work better here!
At 38, I’m too young to remember the Callaghan years and the Winter of Discontent, and what’s more I grew up in a Guardian-reading household! So I’m not in the best position to make an informed judgement.
However, I do believe that she was a genuine patriot and that she successfully recognised and rose to at least some of the major challenges of the day. Being a lot more left-wing then than I am now I radically disagreed with some of her policies at the time – and I’m not a tolerant or forgiving person when it comes to the failings of politicians – but I can truthfully say I never hated her. In contrast to the revulsion I felt towards Major and Blair. I suppose the difference is, respect, or lack of.
I think that if she had a fault it’s that she was too materialistic in her outlook and neglected social and moral issues, but this could equally be said of previous and subsequent administrations as well.
What’s your view on her then, Chas, apart from the Israeli and Jewish angles? Positive or negative?
Mrs Thatcher is obviously also the most controversial political figure of the 20th century in British politics .
I readily concede that Thatcher was a good friend of Israel & the Jewish Community – and We should be appreciative of her support .
The problem is that for large sections of British society Mrs Thatchers policies were hugely damaging – We should understand why Thatcher is absolutely hated by the people of the Mining Communities ( Communities wrecked by Thatcher’s hatred of Trade Unions & The N.U.M. ) – the legacy of Thatcher’s destruction of deep-mined Coal is areas blighted by crime & drug-dealing and Britain’s energy supplies reliant on expensive foreign imports from politically unstable areas of the world .
Add to this all the other areas of destruction of Britain’s manufacturing industry ( sold off in order to make a quick profit from the Tories chums in big business ) .
Mrs Thatcher will soon pass away – Trade Unionism & the ordinary , decent Working-Class people that it represents will remain long after she is just a bad memory !
Ian
Oh please…yes she’s “controversial”, because anyone the left hates (i.e. not one of their own) immediately gets labelled “controversial”. Wasn’t Callahan controversial – do you think he did a good job for Britain? As for the NUM, it was led by Arthur Scargill, a Communist who went to the Soviet Union at a time the Gulag archipelago of concentration camps was in full working order, and told the Politburo how awful the UK was. Nothing “controversial” about that – not if you’re a blinkered leftie who hates Britain.
Dear Adam ,
Don’t You think that a blanket-description of the whole of The Labour Movement & Socialist politics as ” the left ” is basically Labelling a very diverse group of people ?
The Labour Movement contains Marxists , Christian-Socialists , Social-Democrats , it comprises both people with the greatest commitment to political & social Democracy and it also contains Stalinists & Trots Who are deeply untrustworthy – but of course that could also equally apply to people with Right-Wing politics .
Not everybody on ” the left ” hates anybody not of their own . I have friends in all the political parties ( and of no political opinions ) – The different Friends Of Israel groups cooperate together regardless of our political differences .
Jim Callaghan was basically a good man who did his best for Britain ( He served in The Royal Navy during WW11 ) – I don’t have to agree with everything that He did to recognise that .
Arthur was elected by the N.U.M. membership & carried out the decisions that their elected reps made . So what if Arthur was a Communist ? it’s not a criminal offence to hold radical & controversial political opinions . Arthur was wrong about many aspects of the Stalinist Block countries , especially his criticism of Solidarnosc in Poland ( and do you remember Thatcher’s banning of Free Trade Unions at GCHQ Cheltenham in 1984 ? – it took 13 years for the very brave sacked Trade Unionists to defeat the ban ) , and he was strongly attacked by other Socialists for this at the time – but He was right to condemn what Thatcher was doing with her divisive policies – and The Miners Strike ( with illegal Police roadblocks , invasions of Mining Villages by armies of Paramilitary
Riot-Police , the deaths of David Jones & Joe Green on the Picket Lines . thousands of injuries caused by Police violence , telephone tapping, MI5 surveillence & infiltration of the N.U.M. leadership etc ) proves that Arthur was right !
And while we are talking about concentration camps lets not forget that the Tories were apologists for Pinochets regime in Chile – a Fascist regime that came to power in a military coup against a democratically elected government & went on to torture & murder thousands of it’s political opponents – the political right are just as capable of supporting vile human rights abuses as the political left .
Ian – “what’s wrong with being a Communist”?
What’s wrong with being a Nazi? If one is happy to lend support to a regime which kills and tortures millions in the gulag archipelago, (not rtemotely comparable to Pinochet), whilst badmouthing Britain to the murderers, he is beyond the pale. And you should say so.
Dear Adam ,
Although it is fashionable for people on the political Right to equate Communists with the Nazis ,& claim that there is no political difference . I think that it is dangerously close to a lack of understanding of the uniquely evil nature of Fascism . There are no good Nazis – but even if You are completely opposed to Communism You should recognise that there are millions of caring , well intentioned people , who were & are Communists .
But as I mentioned above , what is a Communist ?
Are Communists only the secret police & executioners of the Gulag ?
what about the Comunists of Tito’s Yugoslavia ?( who resisted Stalinist intimidation & formed relations with western block countries , had innovative forms of Workers self-control in industry, had free emigration policies etc ) who organised the Partisans to liberate Yugoslavia from the Nazis .
What about the Communists of Czechoslovakia ? the Czech Party , under Alexander Dubcek , formulated the policy of
” Socialism With A Human Face ” during The Prague Spring .
I am just trying to make the point again that there are many different types of ” Communists ” and that it is unhelpful to say that they are all the same .
” And you should say so . ” – I did ( as a teenager first starting to become interested in politics during the 80′s – and I have always been a supporter of Free Trade Unions like Solidarnosc & Workers Resistance to the Stalinist regimes ) – and , as I mentioned above , so did most of Left at the time ( a view proved right by Poland & other Stalinist countries Scabbing on The Miners’ Strike by selling Coal to Britain during the Strike . Solidarnosc Activists also sent messages of Support to the Miners . )
Jim Callahan “did his best for Britain” – you mean, bring it to its knees?
Ian, are you happy with the vile antisemitism on display at some of the UK’s unions today, like UCU, which has formally re-invented the definition of antisemitism?
Dear Adam ,
As a active volunteer with Trade Union Friends Of Israel of course I’m unhappy with the Anti-Semitism !!!
Then Ian, leave the union! These people are driven by dogma, and Israel will always be their whipping boy.
Why be part of it?
Dear Adam ,
Trade Unions don’t exist to act as a political football to kick about the Israel/Palestine conflict ( that is why it is so wrong that the Palestinian lobby has attempted to hijack The Movement for it’s unbalanced Anti-Israel extremism ) .
Trade Unions have existed for over 200 years as a spontaneous response of The Working Class to defend their interests at work & in the Democratic process of Society . I am not going to be intimidated by Anti-Israel infiltrators into leaving the Movement that I & millions of other people are active in during our working lives . The Unions belong to us – they don’t belong to the PSC !
There is a particular problem in the British Trade Unions ( caused by infiltration of The Movement by Stalinist & Trotskyite activists who are obsessed by Anti-Zionist prejudices ) but other countries have much more sensible relations with Israeli & Palestinian Trade Unions – is it fair to judge Trade Unionism purely by the policies of The TUC ?
Trade Unions are active in both Israeli & Palestinian Society . British Trade Unions should stop promoting a rejectionist approach to Israel & an unquestioning cheerleading for Palestinian chauvinism – rather that they should build links with both Israeli & Palestinian Unions & help promote dialogue between Israeli & Palestinian Workers . This is the work that Trade Union Friends Of Israel carry out -a principled campaign that has led to harassment & insults against our supporters from the Palestinian extremists .
If we were to leave the Unions then the only voice heard would be the voice of the extremists – surely You understand that this would be a completely negative decision to make !
Ian, of course I support you, and understand why you feel this way. But I feel you are missing the point. The left has become overwhelmingly anti-Israel. This is not the left of the past – it has changed. It is not the movement you joined. This is because of the structural and philiosophical defects which lie within leftist thinking itself (which are too numerous to list here). Either way, the argument will only go one way from now on – there is no rational discussion to be had with the unions. As an astronaut said, you cannot reason people out of a position they were not reasoned into.
The unions are anti-Semitic because they want to be – it was never the result of reasoned debate or rational thinking. You will never change them – sadly. We need to convince the middle ground – not the indoctrinated loonies of the far left.
Who’s Margret Thatcher
Just seen The Iron Lady (orange Wednesday!)
I must admit I enjoyed it more than i thought I would. The film is all about how good Meryl Streep plays the part, the story is neither here nor there, just vignettes of memory, but having lived through this period, it was touching – I felt like singing ‘G-d save the Queen’ when it finished!